Phil Waldrep: Well, we’re sitting here with George Beverly Shea. Mr. Shea, thank you for taking time to talk with all of us at Living with Joy.

George Beverly Shea: Can I say Dr. Phil?

Phil Waldrep: Just call me Phil. That would be better.

George Beverly Shea: Phil? P-H-I-L, period?

Phil Waldrep: That’s right. That’s it. That’s it.

George Beverly Shea: Good to see you again.

Phil Waldrep: Well, there’s so many things I want to talk to you about, and there’s a lot that our listeners – we’ve heard you sing through the years, but I want them to get to know you a little bit better. Many people don’t know that you grew up in Canada –

George Beverly Shea: Yes.

Phil Waldrep: – and your father was a minister.

George Beverly Shea: Yes.

Phil Waldrep: Tell us about your father and mother and growing up in Canada.

George Beverly Shea: Yes. My father was supposed to be – he was the youngest of seven boys, and his father grabbed him by the hand, he said, “You and I go to church from now on, because you’re gonna be the priest of the family.” Shea is very Irish, you know.

But my father, when he was 19, went to hear a local minister who was advertised as a former pugilist, a fighter. He thought, “This will be interesting,” but he heard the tender Gospel message for the first time, and the little altar there, he knelt at it, and the Lord Jesus, in a wonderful way, came into his heart.

And he had respect for his fellow – his father and the family, but he went the other way. He became a Wesleyan Methodist pastor. The first one was Winchester, Ontario. There was six of us that came along then. I was one of them, and then eight – a total of eight. Two came along later, you know.

Phil Waldrep: And you were the fourth child?

George Beverly Shea: I was right in the middle, yeah.

Phil Waldrep: And you got your love for music from your mother and dad as well?

George Beverly Shea: Oh, yes. Mother played the piano so well. My father used to love to tell a story about when I was five years old, on a Saturday morning, there was a rap on the door, and the two men there from USA, my father had asked them to sing at the church for a whole week during special meetings.

And they said, “Mrs. Shea, you play the piano so well. Would you help us to learn this song, because they said it was new?” “The Old Rugged Cross.”

Phil Waldrep: Really?

George Beverly Shea: 1913. I was five. And Dad said I stood there by the piano, my mouth open, not realizing that someday, I’d be singing that song to several people here and there, you know.

Phil Waldrep: Really? And it was a new song at that time?

George Beverly Shea: 1913 was when it was written.

Phil Waldrep: 1913?

George Beverly Shea: Yeah, yeah.

Phil Waldrep: Well, I have to –

George Beverly Shea: George Bennard got the medium, you know.

Phil Waldrep: Right. I have to tell our audience that as you’re recording this, you are 100 years old. You will soon be 101.

George Beverly Shea: In two months, yeah.

Phil Waldrep: So tell us, when did you become a Christian? How did that take place?

George Beverly Shea: Well, when I was very young. You know, if you’re a Methodist, you might start twice. [Laughter] You can explain that.

Phil Waldrep: Right.

George Beverly Shea: Anyway, I was 18 years of age. Dad was having a very special week of services, a special speaker, and it came to invitation time, and I could hardly wait. I told Mr. Graham this one time. I could hardly wait to be able to sing, “Just As I Am,” because it kinda relieved my conviction, you know. Stand there in the audience, “Just as I am,” you know.

And I said to Mr. Graham, “Have you ever thought that just saying the – as the choir sings – don’t let the people have a chance to sing.” But anyway, Dad came down from the pulpit, put his hand on my shoulder, and I was 18. “Hey, son,” he says, “you know, tonight could be the night.”

And whatever my dad did, I loved. I followed him right down the middle aisle, I knelt on one knee. But, you know, they had the altar – people they called workers. Do you know what that means, [Crosstalk] –

Phil Waldrep: Oh, yeah, sure.

George Beverly Shea: – who encouraged you?

Phil Waldrep: Mm-hmm.

George Beverly Shea: And I knelt on one knee, because my father always knelt on one knee. So I knelt on one knee, and this lady came in my ear and she said, “You needn’t think it’s any compliment the Lord you’re here. Both knees, and get to praying.” And she apologized to me later on.

In 1939, I think it was, you got asked about going to work at a radio station.

George Beverly Shea: Yes. Yes, at Pinebrook Bible Conference in Poconos. I had two weeks’ vacation, and I’d take one week to go there with Percy Crawford and sing a little bit during the week, you know.

Met Dr. Houghton there. He was the new president of Moody Bible. I had knew him at Calvary Baptist Church, across from Carnegie Hall. We met around a tree one Tuesday morning, and he said – I was very young, 27, yet he called me Mister. Can you imagine that?

“Mr. Shea,” he said, “have you ever thought of Christian radio as a vocation? I said, “Dr. Houghton, I never knew such a thing could happen.” So, “We’ll correspond about it.”

So I left New York, took a train, and went to Chicago, and there all those years, you know.

Phil Waldrep: At WMBI?

George Beverly Shea: Yeah.

Phil Waldrep: Which is where the Moody Bible Institute –

George Beverly Shea: Yes, yes.

Phil Waldrep: And I think –

George Beverly Shea: That’s the flagship station. Now, they have about 120 other stations, I guess.

Phil Waldrep: That’s right. That’s right.

Phil Waldrep: And so you worked there at the radio station, managing the station and [Crosstalk] –

George Beverly Shea: Not managing, no.

Phil Waldrep: No?

George Beverly Shea: No, just one of the announcers, and they gave me some songs to sing.

Phil Waldrep: And you sang on several programs during that time too?

George Beverly Shea: I recall Hymns From the Chapel. Singing, I go along life’s road, for Jesus has lifted my load. I guess I got too low. Low. That’s a little too low.

Phil Waldrep: Right. And you would sing. And during that time, it was when you met Billy Graham?

George Beverly Shea: Yes. My office door, I guess, on the other side of the glass, he came in, tall, thin, blond, and we shook hands. I realized he was somebody very special. He said he was listening to Hymns from the Chapel before he went to class.

So he hopped a train and came in from Wheaton, and that was great, to meet him. And then later on, he asked me to go with him to sing a song before he spoke, you know, when he began the Crusades.

And I said, “The only gospel singers I’ve ever heard about was sing a verse or two, and then stop and talk a while. Would I have to do that?”

He chuckled, and he said, “I hope not.” Then I said, “I would like to come with you.”

Phil Waldrep: Right.

George Beverly Shea: And that was 1947, Charlotte, North Carolina.

Phil Waldrep: Was when you did – when you sang on his program, he was actually a pastor of a church there –

George Beverly Shea: Yeah.

Phil Waldrep: – in Western Springs, Illinois?

George Beverly Shea: In a Baptist church, yes.

Phil Waldrep: And y’all would do that in the basement of the church –

George Beverly Shea: Yeah.

Phil Waldrep: – on Sunday nights?

George Beverly Shea: That was Songs in the Night.

Phil Waldrep: Songs in the Night, right?

George Beverly Shea: Yes, yeah.

Phil Waldrep: But you did it on Sunday nights?

George Beverly Shea: Yes, 10:15 to 11:00 in the basement, and he sat at a table, a microphone, and I’d give Ruth Graham the songs, and then we had a girl trio – I did three songs, but Ruth would start the thoughts about each song, kinda prime Billy. He’d read that, and then he’d talk for three or four minutes before the next song. And he found he could talk that way. And that was great, you know.

Phil Waldrep: So y’all started on the radio program?

George Beverly Shea: Yeah.

Phil Waldrep: You’re still at the radio station.

George Beverly Shea: Songs in – that’s still going on. It’s at Moody church now. All these years.

Phil Waldrep: And they’re still airing it?

George Beverly Shea: Yeah. Yes.

Phil Waldrep: And then 1947 in Charlotte was where you actually went and sang –

George Beverly Shea: Yes. Yeah.

Phil Waldrep: – with him?

George Beverly Shea: Yeah. Cliff Barrows joined.

Phil Waldrep: Right.

George Beverly Shea: Yeah.

Phil Waldrep: How did you meet Cliff Barrows?

George Beverly Shea: He came in – Bob Jones College, he came in singing baritone in quartets. We met each – that time. I was – the announcer put him on the air, you know, and we began a friendship. I didn’t know we’d be together for so many years later on.

Phil Waldrep: So you met him at the radio station before –

George Beverly Shea: And then –

Phil Waldrep: – you were working with Mr. Graham?

George Beverly Shea: And we worked together from ’47 until now, you know. I see him once a week yet.

Phil Waldrep: Wow.

George Beverly Shea: He’s 15 years younger than I am. Yeah.

Phil Waldrep: [Laughter] You’re actually the oldest of Dr. Graham and Cliff?

George Beverly Shea: Let’s say I am.

Phil Waldrep: Right. [Laughter] And all of you are still doing well?

George Beverly Shea: Yeah. Yeah.

Phil Waldrep: Well, and then – so you sang in ’47, and then it was in 1949 when you had the big crusade in Los Angeles?

George Beverly Shea: It was, yes.

Phil Waldrep: Tell us about that experience.

George Beverly Shea: That was a great, big tent. It seated about 2,500. And they put the flap of the tent up so there would be people outside on benches, you know.

That place today that’s – corner of Washington and Hill Street, today is a great, big, beautiful building there, police headquarters. And on the corner, they’ve got sort of a memorial, I’m gonna say, to that meeting. “Billy Graham was here at a meeting in 1949.” And the police put that up there. Nice.

Phil Waldrep: As a memorial to that crusade?

George Beverly Shea: Yeah, yeah.

Phil Waldrep: How long did that one go, the original one that –

George Beverly Shea: Eight weeks.

Phil Waldrep: Eight weeks?

George Beverly Shea: Uh-huh.

Phil Waldrep: And you sang every night?

George Beverly Shea: Tried to.

Phil Waldrep: Really? Eight weeks that y’all were there?

George Beverly Shea: Yeah.

Phil Waldrep: And then the Billy Graham Association was formed –

George Beverly Shea: Yeah.

Phil Waldrep: – a year or two later?

George Beverly Shea: Well, let’s see. Well, yes. I forget just what year it was, but there were two men were – wanted Mr. Graham to go on the air, and he didn’t want to do it, but they kept at him so much that he told the people after benediction one night in Charlotte – no, in – where was this? Out in Oregon.

He says, “Two men here want us to go on the air with the program. We don’t know whether we should or not, but we have to have, they say, $25,000.00 to begin with to give the ABC Network. So if that would come in tonight by just pledges after the benediction here,” you know. We’d say, “Well, $24,000.00 came in.” They got back to the hotel. There were two checks there for $500.00 a piece. There was the $25,000.00.

Phil Waldrep: And in that day, that was a lot of money.

George Beverly Shea: It was, yeah.

Phil Waldrep: Well, it’s a lot of money now, but in that day, it was really a lot of money.

George Beverly Shea: Yeah. And that – yeah, it began. Ruth Graham gave it the name, you know.

Phil Waldrep: Right. Now, but there’s – people who have studied the Billy Graham Association talk about an experience in Modesto, California –

George Beverly Shea: Yeah.

Phil Waldrep: – where you and Cliff and I think maybe Grady Wilson –

George Beverly Shea: Grady. Oh, yeah.

Phil Waldrep: – and T.W. Wilson –

George Beverly Shea: And Cliff, yeah.

Phil Waldrep: – all made a commitment. Sometimes I think they call it the “Modesto Manifesto”; is that right?

George Beverly Shea: We were talking in the afternoon, and Billy brought this up, you know? He said, “You know, there are bumps in the road, and we must be very careful. Let’s go to our room and pray about things like this and come back, and perhaps we could mention some things. And we’ll call it the Modesto Manifesto.” [Laughter]

You know, I – you know, certain things about money, the offerings, must be taken care of very carefully. Advertising, very honest. And let’s say that we, married men, would never be seen in a car or in a room with another lady, you know. So that was part of it. A pretty good idea.

Phil Waldrep: Now, all of these years, you’ve always sang before Dr. Graham preached. And I know you know him as well as anybody probably outside of Ruth Graham, and we’re gonna talk about her in a moment.

But when people sit with you now and say, “All of these years, what kinda person is Billy Graham?” And what was he, through the years? What do you say?

George Beverly Shea: A gentle giant. You know, he Billy he loves people. All through the years, we wait till the last minute before we go up the platform. There might be ten of us going, and form a line to go up.

And he’d get – he’d leave the line to speak to somebody in a wheelchair 50 feet away, or a policeman to – “What’s your name, sir?” And wave to him the next night, you know. Always speaking to people. Not everybody does that, you know, but he liked people.

Phil Waldrep: And he is everything that we would perceive him to be as a spiritual man?

George Beverly Shea: Oh, that man – all these years, since 1943, I’ve known him – he’s never disappointed me in any way, shape, or form.

Do you have any special memory of – I know all the crusades were special, but was there any particular one that stands out to you?

George Beverly Shea: Well, I remember somebody come up to me and he said, “I have a neighbor that just wouldn’t come.” I’m not gonna have anything to do with that junk from that platform. But he finally got him there. And the man wouldn’t stop talking out loud. It was embarrassing. Cliff got up to lead the singing and he, oh, he can’t lead singing. I started to get up to sing, He’s got the Whole Wide World in His Hand, and he made fun of me. I don’t blame him. But I got to that verse, (Singing) he’s got the tiny little baby in his hand, he’s got that tiny little baby – and he just slumped in his seat because at home a four year old child was very ill. And that touched him. He sat up and listened to the message among the hundreds who walked forward. And he did. Was Arena in London. Yeah. I like that story.

Phil Waldrep: That’s a great story of how God used a song to get his attention. Speaking of songs, you’re written songs. There’s two in particular. One of them is I want you to tell us the story of how you wrote The Wonder of it All.

George Beverly Shea: I’m waiting and we used to go over ship, you know. And there was a man on board that he was a Jewish gentleman. He had a publishing house and we got chatting in a saloon. Not the salon. No, not the saloon, the salon. Little difference isn’t there?

Phil Waldrep: Yeah.

George Beverly Shea: He kind of was interested in publishing I’d Rather Have Jesus. I told him another firm in California was gonna do that. He took that nicely. And then he said to me, “I hear about these meetings. What goes on?” I tried to tell him. Talking to a man of another faith, you know. And I felt the responsibility when I got to the part where Mr. Graham would ask people to come to make the decision for Christ, I just ran out of words. I said, “Oh, sir, if you could see it, the wonder of it all.” He took from his pocket an envelope and wrote on it, the wonder of it all. He let me see it, I want you to write a song with that title. I don’t do that kind of thing. But anyways, it’d been a nice sunset over there. (Singing)There is a wonder of sunset at evening. The wonder of sunrise I see. But the wonder of wonders that thrills my soul, is a wonder that God loves me. It’s a wonder that’ll has only begun be gone. The wonder of it all.

Phil Waldrep: That’s been sung and you’ve sung that in the crusades.

George Beverly Shea: Yeah.

Phil Waldrep: All these years. And the song that probably you’re best known for is I’d Rather Have Jesus. All these years. Tell us the story how that came to be.

George Beverly Shea: I was 23 years of age working downtown New York. I either take a train under the river or the ferry across in the morning. And this was a Sunday morning on the piano. A piece of cardboard. My mother’s own writing. It was about an inch high. She wanted me to see that poem she found, Maria F. Miller. And I was impressed. And I got the key of B flat and just kind of. And I got that chorus. Then to be the king. It seems to come out, you know just easy. And pretty soon I felt hands on my shoulder looked up my mother was up there with tears in her eyes. It was having a desired effect. She was in the next room having her early morning devotion and heard me doing that at the piano.

Phil Waldrep: And so you wrote the music. But the words to that poem were –

George Beverly Shea: Maria F. Miller. Yeah.

Phil Waldrep: Right. And her husband later become something with the Church of Nazarene.

George Beverly Shea: He was a Nazarene pastor. Mm hmm. Yeah and became one of the superintendents of the Nazarene denomination. Nice people.

Phil Waldrep: Right. And so these years you put the music to it. Do you know how many times you have sung that song?

George Beverly Shea: I would not know.

Phil Waldrep: Well, you know the Guinness Book of World Records says that you have sung to more people face to face in person than any other human being.

George Beverly Shea: And you can read that and you like it, yet you could smile and have a little laughter about that, too. Sure didn’t come to hear me. They came to hear Billy Graham.

Phil Waldrep: Well, but I think –

George Beverly Shea: They were locked in there. They couldn’t leave. I had to do that one song before he spoke.

Phil Waldrep: Well, that’s true. But Billy Graham still says you’re his favorite singer. You know that he loves to hear you sing after all these years. You know when people look back 100 years from today on George Beverly Shea –

George Beverly Shea: They won’t remember him.

Phil Waldrep: Well, I think they will. But how do you want them to remember you?

George Beverly Shea: I stayed on pitch. No, you can alter that a little bit.

Phil Waldrep: Right.

George Beverly Shea: You know how it works.

Phil Waldrep: Right. Right. But you also – but you want them to know you not only stayed on pitch singing, but you stayed on pitch in your life and honored the Lord and all of that. Well, you know one of the things that I have loved and admired about you all of these years, the whole Graham team, is that you guys have remained so faithful. And you’ve been such good examples for people to follow. So many people have modeled their ministries after the Billy Graham Association. And I think that speaks well, not just of Dr. Graham, but of George Beverly Shea and Cliff Barrows and all of you guys.

George Beverly Shea: You know the word privilege could be over worked. That’s the only word I could think of. What a privilege it’s been, you know.

Phil Waldrep: To the joys of –

George Beverly Shea: It’s amazing. It’s amazing.